i have a bone to pick with bitter asian men. why aren't they trying to date latinas, or african americans, or arabs, or native americans, or ... ? if you're gonna complain about being discriminated against because of your race, you better be correct yourself!

what's with the panda logo on the bitter asian men site? it looks like it's menstruating or something, pms panda.

I do agree with Claire. I have Asian friends who are too afraid of rejection that they never try asking girls of other races... then they turn around and complain about the girls.

one of guys says that "unfortunely he prefers asian girls". oh well..

'preference' notwithstanding, is it just a 'fear of rejection' or is it really a disdain for those perceived as 'less worthy'? this doesn't seem to be only an asian guy problem. if you look at the overwhelming majority of 'mixed' couples, it is asian women and white men. i don't think the white men are hypnotizing the asian women so what gives?
also, i don't see many waving the 'preference banner' in defense of those white guys that 'prefer' asian women so is it a real justification now? what if white girls said they 'prefer' white men? would that go down as easily as the 'preference' defense posted above?

i think there are a few reasons why it's hard for asian guys to approach other races. i would say fear of rejection is a huge reason, but there are other factors that are out of control.

i think one is that being with a caucasian (male or female) is seen as the gold standard. it's like you're moving up in the world. if you're an asian girl, being with a white guy somehow validates your being accepted as an american or whatever. for white girls, why date an asian guy when you can date a white guy? why date down in the social hierarchy?

this goes along with the previous reason, and it's that most white women just don't consider asian guys as possible companions. we can be great friends cause we're studious and nice, basically harmless guys. but we're not the guy they've dreamed about all their lives. we're not brad pitt or whoever. i'm not saying this is racism or anything...in fact i think it's innocent and inadvertent, but it happens nonetheless.

i also think there are stereotypes about asian guys. i mean it's what asian guys bitch about all the time, which is lame, but i don't think it's groundless whining. i think it sort of creates an inferiority complex.

i've been with two non asian girls and in neither case was i the one that made the approach. i think with most things it comes down to social circles and where you hang out. i mean walking up to a bombshell in a bar doesn't work for teh hottest white guy, i wouldnt expect it to work for an asian guy. but if you're around a girl a lot and she gets to know you as a person besides just being an asian guy, i think with most open minded girls you've got as good a shot as anyone.

rant over

hmmm, it seems that maybe you have set white women as the gold standard too. maybe i am leaping to conclusions, but it sounds like you have not considered dating a non-asian girl who is also non-white. as for white women not dating asian guys because of a 'why take a step back' mentality, white women date other non-whites, so why wouldn't they date asian guys too? it sounds like you would consider any of them (non-white and non-asian guys) as a 'step back' for her.

as for fear of rejection, does this fear on their part make them any more compassionate when someone comes up to them? or do they kick 'em to the curb with no remorse and no attempt at getting to know the person? mighty mighty props to claire at the start of this thread on telling asian guys that they had better check themselves before they kevitch about getting dissed on account of their being asian. karma is a hard teacher.

you are correct on the social circles thing - where and who you hang out with is a big factor. if you cocoon yourself in a limited range universe, don't be surprised if your sky has few stars.

on the asian girls and the 'moving on up' thing, where do they get that from and why does it not 'affect' their brothers when they are growing up too? or does it? don't think of people as merit badges you need to collect to gain entry to the next level. it demeans them and demeans you even more. plus, why would you want to aspire to join a group that (presumably) didn't want you in the first place?

i think it is real important that non-whites in the US (and the world) stop stop STOP allowing or accepting the premise that 'white' is the normative condition and that all others (theirs) are somehow less than normal. this is not said to diminsh white people but to recognize and acknowledge that all people are people and as people deserve a universal level of respect and dignity and that their histories, cultures and lives are just as valuable as anyone elses. please do not begin a round of 'Kumbiya' and hold hands! just treat me like you would like to be treated (unless you are a masochist since i am not!) and we are cool. deal with me as me and not as your preconceived notion of WTF based on some stupid unreal reality show or your limited exposure to a narrow sampling of manufactured MacCulture - predigested for your convenience.
so i suggest to the libertinea...Go get 'em tiger!!! and don't forget to ask her if fries come with that shake?

They said it! You go, um...men! :-o




#3. And to add, my experience is that of all four white girls who ever expressed any interest in me at all, ever, and didn't become soon after uninterested, well I don't know how to otherwise say it, they had some kind of Asian *male* fetish...what's up with that???



Although I can't be completely certain to state "fetish", both had had histories of dating other Asian men. What do these girls assume they will find that attracts them? I actually find myself generally disgusted by this idea because I don't understand it, and my suspicion leads me to think they have inaccurate assumptions about what they're going to get.

I wonder how much social relationships between Asian men and others all divides down between the different kinds of Asians as well as the mixes between Asians and Asian Americans. Would a Korean-American girl "accept" a Vietnamese-American guy? I wonder how the dynamic differs from areas where Asian Americans are (more / less) (assimilated / accepted) on (East Coast / Midwest / West Coast)? Maybe it matters less or works differently? And in Canada???

>i have a bone to pick with bitter asian men. why aren't they trying to date latinas
Good question; I wouldn't know as I've basically had no experience in relationships, and I'm single as ever, at 25 years old. (Bitter?)



However, I can say that I've found myself attracted to women of all sorts (desperation?) and although the majority of those would fall under "white American," I cannot recall specifically having rejected someone else's interest due to their ethnicity or color or ancestry, etc (yep, desperate). Although as before, considering the few number of women who have ever expressed any interest...my statistics are useless.



I *do* seem to have a preference for "white" women however, and even moreover, European women (?)



I form my identity less by my ancestry however, neither Asian nor American really, but more out of just "human". I wonder if some of this complicates the whole issue? I am hoping there are others out there who can see past the color / ancestry / etc. thing?

>i think there are a few reasons why it's hard for asian guys to approach other races.



I vote no on the "having fear of rejection"; at this point, I expect rejection, from her or me.



>i think one is that being with a caucasian (male or female) is seen as the gold



Wow, this is relative to individual values and is tough to generalize, isn't it? I don't see caucasian as a standard...at least I don't think I do. I'd like to meet maybe a cute Dutch, Swedish, German, British, Irish, Canadian, American, or Asian or...yeah--are those people all seen as "white" (disregarding American and Asian of course, although some would make the case as well on the latter)? I'd say Europeans have a very different culture, of course, and I think this affects the dynamic.



>an asian guy when you can date a white guy? why date down in the social hierarchy?



Depends on the social hierarchy. There are those who think that dating a white guy / girl is dating down...aren't there?



>but we're not the guy they've dreamed about all their lives.



This is a GREAT point, and more reason for me to be to just be more sorrowful than bitter; I agree. I guess me and white women are not made to be, if people see color or physical attributes as primary factors. I am open, but I've also mostly dreamed about white women; I am doomed.



Overall, it's tough trying to make guesses as to what others think, but I'd love to know, as I'm sure so many others would.



>white women date other non-whites, so why wouldn't they date asian guys too?
It would be good to know the reason why they date other non-whites, I guess.



>or does it?
"White" is neither a step up nor down for me--stepping down means accepting ill manners and behavior, however, regardless of physical characteristics.



I'm bitter. But more sad, because I've generally given up.



And thankful to all of you, as I am rarely involved in Asian American culture, and this is really my only way to hear other people's perspectives, outside of social cliques and group-think.

Gee Phil, you seem pretty down.

"...#3. And to add, my experience is that of all four white girls who ever expressed any interest in me at all, ever, and didn't become soon after uninterested..."

If they had a fetish, why would they then become uninterested? How do you distinguish an 'attraction' from a 'fetish'? Isn't a 'fetish' something where the person is 'objectified' such that they lose any real 'identity' other than as the 'thing' of the fetish? i.e. - any 'asian guy' will do, not a specific asian guy.

"...What do these girls assume they will find that attracts them? ... and my suspicion leads me to think they have inaccurate assumptions about what they're going to get."
As they have dated asian guys before, it would seem they actually found what attracts them. What do you think they would 'get' universally from 'asian guys' that they can't or won't get from other guys?

"I wonder ..."
Good questions. What's your experience?

"Good question; I wouldn't know ..."
Bad answer. The question was not 'what is your experience with...' but 'why don't you try to date...'. Your lack of success in this area could be due to many factors - not trying would be a leading one. Why haven't you tried?

"...I've found myself attracted to women of all sorts (desperation?)..." Nope. Human.

I *do* seem to have a preference for "white" women however, and even moreover, European women (?)

"I form my identity less by my ancestry however, neither Asian nor American really, but more out of just "human"...."
It doesn't complicate it, but I suggest that it is somewhat impossible. Your preference for *European* women would be impossible to identify without some corresponding descriptor to compare them against. You must have an idea of 'non-European' to compare to 'European' so that you can 'name' your preference.

"I vote no on the "having fear of rejection"; at this point, I expect rejection, from her or me."
Could it be that this self-defeating attitude manifests itself and leads to the inevitable rejection? A little Dr. Phil-ish, but...

"Wow, this is relative to individual values and is tough to generalize..."
You stated a preference for 'white' and/or European, so apparantly it is not so difficult to 'pin' on a person. Actually, I would contend that Canadians, British\UK or Americans cannot be automatically catagorized or assumed to be white. This is one of the 'problems' in my opinion.

'Europeans' do not have a monlithic culture. Is it the 'culture' you like or their ethnicity? Would an ethnically Aborigine woman born, raised and acculturated in Stockholm satisfy you? She would be 'European' in culture, but not ethnically.

"Depends on the social hierarchy. There are those who think that dating a white guy / girl is dating down...aren't there?"
True, but this thread was looking at it the other way.

"This is a GREAT point, and more reason for me to be to just be more sorrowful than bitter; ... me and white women are not made to be ... but I've also mostly dreamed about white women; I am doomed."
And overly melodramatic.

"..It would be good to know the reason why they date other non-whites, I guess."
Could it be because they like the person? Maybe they (those white women that date non-whites) are NOT equating their partner to a 'trophy' or symbol which they must 'acquire' to be happy.
Maybe they think he will be good in bed, treat her nicely, has a rich uncle.

"I'm bitter. But more sad, because I've generally given up."
Cheezz'n Crackers! You're 25!!! give the 'sad sack' thing a rest.

"And thankful to all of you, as I am rarely involved in Asian American culture, and this is really my only way to hear other people's perspectives, outside of social cliques and group-think."
Why can't you 'engage' with other persons or groups? Do you live somewhere that has no 'minorities' at all?

This is for Phil and for all the other "bitter Asian men" out there who think that AA women don't want to date them. (Not to dismiss the great convo that came before me, but my heart goes out to Phil..)

I'm an Asian American woman and I've dated many Asian American men. Also Latino, African American, Asian (in Asia) and white.

I probably would have dated a lot more Asian American men had they simply asked. Especially at Phil's age, a lot of guys don't realize that it's not going to just fall out of the sky, you've got to do your part. What's your part?

-Don't come up with some skeezy line, just be friendly and genuine. Get to know a girl as a person.

-Work on yourself. I may go on one date with you, but that's the last date if you haven't read any books, thought about issues of the human condition, made something cool, or gotten out into the world. Girls have standards -and would you want to date one who didn't?

-Know what you want. I've dated so many guys who pursued me who didn't really want a relationship. But didn't really know that, and weren't emotionally intelligent enough to take responsibility for that. Why waste my time? Being in a relationship takes work, costs money, and means you don't get to date other women. If you aren't ready for that then let the girl know that all you want is a booty call, maybe someone will take pity on you.

-Get involved in your community, whatever that is. Model airplanes, political organizing, siprograph artists, whatever you are. Great way to meet chicks and guys without friends aren't so attractive.

-work out. it's good for you and you won't date someone you're not attracted to either, so don't go whining about girls being all shallow. In the same vein, go get some nice clothes and do something about your hair.

-Learn how to treat a woman well. Ask your female friends what their ideal date is. Find out what makes a girl happy (it's really not that hard, trust me).

-I could go on and on, but i have to work. But think of it this way: if you picture a guy who works out, has good clothes and nice hair, who knows how to treat women well, who is confident and sincere and interesting and well-rounded and emotionally mature (which you should be anyway, just to enjoy your stay here on earth) -do you think that guy --Asian, white, Latino, whatever-- is going to be single for very long? Only if he wants to be.

For the replies I thank you.


This is all very complex, and I honestly don't think I'm being unrealistic by saying, to begin: I'm a tough and complex case. I'm unusual.


This is not an Asian American or Asian-related issue, but being Asian doesn't help I think. So I'll try to stick to the subject. I want to avoid using..."I" a lot, but I think I'm about to uh...fail miserably.


>Gee Phil, you seem pretty down.


Occasionally, I am. Don't get me wrong though, I'm pretty laid back about relationships, and over time treat it less and less gravely. I don't think my speaking style transfers well over the internet.


>If they had a fetish, why would they then become uninterested?


I was unclear; sorry! Of four girls, two had a fetish--and there I was unclear too: I cannot definitively say it was a fetish, but I would say it was I guess really, a definite preference of Asian over white men, yes? So: why? I don't know.


The other two were quickly disgusted, and that was all me I guess. :-P They never called back and so, I never knew why it didn't work--Asian or not.


>Isn't a 'fetish' something where the person is 'objectified' such that they lose any


In one of the two above cases, I'd definitely say I kind of felt that way. My relationships with women never last long. Me again. But, I chatted with this girl later and, she was with yet another Asian dude. Why!? Dunno.


>it would seem they actually found what attracts them. What do you think they would 'get'
>universally from 'asian guys' that they can't or won't get from other guys?


Well, previously, she might have found Asian dudes attractive, but I didn't have those qualities. I don't know--but that's an issue. Are women with a preference toward Asian American guys assuming they have similar characteristics and personality traits (stereotype)? I don't fit that, and I guess I'm kind of glad about it.


>Good questions. What's your experience?


Wow, you're asking me??? I was hoping for someone to have the ultimate 50 word answer, it's a tough one.


I may be ignorant, but my observations have suggested:


*At Ohio State, people group together by ethnicity, it seems, so Koreans hang with Koreans, for example. But I don't know if this is influenced by nationalism or something? I can understand being able to speak with people who share common experiences though... And Asian Americans group with their own as well, whereas I don't group with them much.

*There's probably some percentage of native Asians who stick to their nationality. I don't know about Asian Americans who are of single nationality. I'm open though.

*There's a lot of Asian American girls who seem to stick to white guys.

*More assimilation means less fuss about interracial relationships.

*Being Asian is less of an issue, at least it seemed so while I was there, in LA, and in Chicago too.

*Midwest: I think a lot of white girls who are actually native to the Midwest would want to stick with white guys, but that's just an assumption. And I don't know if they immediately dismiss Asian guys, but that's my belief.

*It's always when I feel like racism isn't an issue, that something proves me wrong. That happens more often lately, but in this case, I was with a white girl in a small city in Ohio, stopping for dinner in a family restaurant style deal. While we are being seated, the black waiter says to the all white family sitting at the table something under his breath, or whatnot, and the people he was focusing on seem to agree, in disdain. We left. (!)

*From what I've heard and some of what I've seen, diversity is alright, at least in Toronto.

>The question was not 'what is your experience with...' but 'why don't you try to date...'.

Good point...well first, now looking at it I don't know if Claire was addressing the guys on the web site specifically or asking the question in general, but assuming the latter...


I guess I don't qualify to answer that question because I don't try to date anyone, and that certainly would be part of the problem, eh? As in, I am not making a focused effort to date women, so yeah, problem. But if the opportunity were there to "date" a non-white, non-Asian girl, I wouldn't count her out just because she was not white.


Was "At" suggesting that a fear of rejection prevented Asian boys from asking non-white, non-Asian girls? Or does this include white girls--since in this case, they are "other" as well? Asian men should fear rejection from everyone, it seems, from the evidence. That's why I'd be bitter.


I do not rule girls out for race or ethnicity. Perhaps I do fear rejection, but it's more that I assume the answer is no. Yes, self-defeating.


>Your lack of success in this area could be due to many factors - not trying would be a

>leading one. Why haven't you tried?


It's tough, but I don't think the issue is Asian-American or Asian specific. But: I am a weird guy...non-traditional, I guess.


I want to begin as friends, and maybe just stay friends. Some girls don't do that(?) They just want to find one guy and get married. I want the exact opposite. That's a more American girl issue, maybe, who knows. Really I just want someone to go shopping and do road trips with--no kidding. :-o


Trying is hard--most of my friends left town after they graduated, while I stayed here. Making new friends is tough, because my interests (club music, djing, Asian American issues, rec sports, etc.) are not served much locally, or group pursuits, so I'm less likely to find venues for new relationships.


Perhaps I'm getting this all wrong?


>it is somewhat impossible. Your preference for *European* women would be impossible to

>identify without some corresponding descriptor to compare them against. You must have

I am confused. European women--as in, those whom I have seen and known from specific countries, that I know are of specific ethnicity. But also it's a culture thing too--I like the way they (at least from those I've known, mostly Germans) treat relationships. Probably more culture than looks--there are a lot of attractive looking women in America, no doubt.

>Could it be that this self-defeating attitude manifests itself and leads to the


Ha, yes, I won't disagree. Perhaps so. Maybe I'm sending signals I don't know about. But I've rejected women here and there I guess, at least it seemed that way. And I've definitely had my share of "disappearances" from those I wanted to keep in touch with.


>You stated a preference for 'white' and/or European, so apparantly it is not so difficult


But it's only a preference. I don't think white or European is the standard for everyone, but maybe a large number of Americans, though. We're all people.


>Canadians, British\UK or Americans cannot be automatically catagorized or assumed to be


Somewhat confused but...I'd say the issue of what defines "white" is problematic. I think it describes primarily white Americans however--that's how I think many see it here.


>Is it the 'culture' you like or their ethnicity? Would an ethnically Aborigine woman born,


My preference would be someone with both, but culture is more important.


>And overly melodramatic.


That was somewhat the point, I think. :-P Perhaps it will all work out, but as above, I think it's going to be tough.


>Could it be


Could be...there's so many possibilities of course, though.


>"I'm bitter. But more sad, because I've generally given up."

>Cheezz'n Crackers! You're 25!!! give the 'sad sack' thing a rest.

Ha, I guess that came off a little extra grave. I think I meant to say resigned...?

How do I explain this?

I was at that moment, bitter about the thought that I may be statistically unlikely to find what I'm looking for because of reasons I can only guess. But, I've given up the idea of finding someone actually happening, so I can only be sad so long, right? :-D

A shirt I saw once said, "I feel much better now that I've lost all hope" or something. There you go. It's complex. I'm not pitying myself, it just sucks, and that's a fact.

But this has all been thought provoking and somewhat invigorating.

>Why can't you 'engage' with other persons or groups? Do you live somewhere that has no

Columbus, Ohio and the surrounding area has a weird population--specifically for minorities. I would like to get more involved with Asian Americans as a political identity.

Most of the Asian American groups here are social. After they graduate, most students (in general) leave the city. So it's kind of an empty city, even if there are something like over a million people here. A side note, but, just addressing it.

After looking at it more carefully, it looks like the bitter Asian men site guys are somewhat model minority elitists, and have assimilated well into American culture at least academically and professionally, so I can't help but find a point of contention, as I am more the "failure" type or what ever it's called. I don't see it that way, honestly, but, I just can't recall the actual term. Can't agree with everything.

Many years ago, in the morning, at Ohio State, an Asian male described as something like 220 lbs, 5'x"-5'6", fell /jumped off the top floor of one of the Computer Engineering building's balcony, and I couldn't help but to feel very empathetic I heard about it.

This probably best characterizes my feelings about this whole bitter Asian men issue--I felt so bad for that guy...one of my first thoughts was...short...Asian...I feel like I have at least both of those things going against me. For all I know it could have been an accident. Worse, I tried to keep up with news, but I never found out the resolution. However, it was over a month later, and for whatever reason, no one still had identified the man, and his relatives had still not been contacted. Very sad.

>I'm an Asian American woman and I've dated many Asian American men. Also Latino, African

And for Jennifer's message...good to know there are some out there! Oddly, I'd say the same of Asian American women. An Asian American girl who I only knew had dated one white guy, seemed to be distant. I took that as dismissing me as a possibility. So, I never "asked."

Certainly, I should take action on your suggestions, I could use some work in all those areas...but I think most of the work I have to do is particular to me, and not even an Asian thing. I don't know what it is but I think women just don't like me. Sucks. I could use some work regardless.

>at Phil's age, a lot of guys don't realize that it's not going to just fall out of the sky,

That's definitely one of my problems. But, one major thing is that I'd prefer to just have a lot of friends, who are girls, for starters. Even in that area I am at a loss for some reason. Just at an unusual intersection in life perhaps.

When I do get concerned, it is because I am as old as I am and I've never even "dated" really, and I haven't had a lot of female friends really, which makes me wonder how successful I'll be if I've never even had practice having female friends...so to put it in short "at this rate, I won't have a girlfriend for another decade" is my worry. But perhaps I can move more quickly on it now. From here, I'm not waiting for time to tell anymore.

Thanks though all...!

Phew. I am NOT doing that again. I don't think.

To get the Asian-women-who-go-for-white-guys perspective, I asked a friend of mine who falls into that category to explain herself. She said that she found Asian men to be sexist and unable to communicate feelings. When pressed, it seems that this image was derived from her relationships with her father and brother. And so we have the "you remind me of my brother" excuse.

It it just that? -- an excuse. Her father and brother are certainly not the only Asian men in her life. She had lots of male Asian friends in college, I'm pretty sure that not every single one of them (or even a majority) were sexist and uncommunicative. But perhaps the image of your father is the one you carry around the most in your head and shapes what kind of person you date. For some people anyway.

well, it begs a couple of questions. assuming she doesn't want someone like her father or brother is a legit feeling, has she never met any uncommunicative and sexist white men? i would bet she has, yet that has not detered her from seeing still other white men. this is sort of the mirror image of Melissa's question.

and if the 'not like my father\brother' is the driver, aren't there other men who are 'not like father\brother' besides white men? why only white men? (I assume 'only' based on the description) why not others?

the thing that i find interesting is that there is a recurring theme of "white people as the norm" against which all other people are measured. it is as though when you say 'people' you mean 'white people' and when you talk of anything else, you then add an adjective. it's like white=people and everyone else is 'people-lyte' or semi-people.

we've got to lose this!

Phil,
You're not alone. I've been single since the year 2001 and I'm older than you. Somehow, I find being single fun in a way. I found a hobby to keep myself busy and my mind busy. I don't really think about having a relationship anymore. I mainly focus my attention to other things in life.

Phil U, you sound like you have some interests that are, ummm...interesting. If you like them and engage them with passion and joy, then someone else will value them (and you) as they see how you react. They will want to share your joy.

Jennifer's tips of proper social decorum and grooming are valid and (i think) should go without saying. I'm not suggesting you go all 'Joey Bag-o-donuts' on us with a red polyesther disco shirt and a 'horn of plenty' pendent! Also, you don't need to 'go to the gym' to stay healthy; you can exercise in other ways, but the concept is the same.

First and foremost, I would say stop 'looking' for relationships - not stop living, but stop trying to find 'connections' where none may exist. Take a more zen approach - do what needs doing at the time it needs to be done. But pay attention to what is around you!

Get positive! (I know - Ohio is hard on us all). And DON'T set a preconceived notion about someone's wothiness or ability to rock your world based on their ethnic background. Rent the Human Stain for an interesting treatment of the subject. As for being 'snowblind' - buy shades! Rayban - they're polarized to correct for that sh**!

Let me put a plug in for those Malay gals --- ohhhh fine!! (and don't forget about Dhjibouti and Ethiopia! OMG! OMG!!!)

A questioner, the "white people as the norm," concept is one of the presuppositions that people historically have used as a justification (although unspoken) for colonization and subjugation of people who have color in their skin worldwide.

The term "people," will only be applicable to those who are caucasian, thus all other groups are "non-people." Having this base belief makes it much easier to sleep at night for those who participate in enslaving others, subjecting others to inhumane working conditions, and denying others humanitarian aid, etc. Why feel pangs of guilt when they're merely savages? They're merely saving us from ourselves; dog only knows where we'd be if left to our own backwards devices!!!

And when is it the "oppressor" can truly cheer for victory? When the minds and hearts of the oppressed have been broken to the point where even they believe the hype and twisted logic used to enslave them in the first place.

That such a notion still exists, and even exists in the minds of some people who are ethnic minorities, is somewhat of a proof that manifest destiny/colonial mindset are sadly still alive and well.

"You can't hold a man (woman) down without staying down with him (her)."

Booker T. Washington.

As an Asian American woman, I'm going to have to say that a lot of the reasons as to why AA women don't date AA men are good, but I think we forget the most important reason: They simply don't click.

At the risk of sounding like a hippie, I'm going to have to say to love or to like someone doesn't mean that you have to adhere to certain race. I've dated AA men and white men. I'm currently with a white man, but I don't think that the reason we are together is because I hate AA men. Rather, I found that I had a lot in common with this white man.

The idea of white as a "gold standard" is a bit ridiculous. But I think that the way you grew up has a lot to do with how you choose your date or mate. I grew up ABC, so my ideas tend to think less traditional Asian and more white. Doesn't mean I find one race more attractive than the other. I've found attractive men of all races. But it does mean that in terms of thinking, I find myself in less of a traditional "wife" sort of place, and more "modern woman."

OK, this is getting interesting. Between RememberMe? and Reiha, where do you start? RM - BINGO on your points, although I am kind of past the Frantz Fanon-esque 'wretched of the earth' tone that some of what you've written takes on. But to the extent that non-white people take on an attitude (not a very accurate description, but) that their definition of themselves must always be in juxtaposition to white people, then we (non-whites) place ourselves in the 'secondary' role. We don't exist without them. This would (probably) manifest itself over time in an ever-spiraling sort of group mistrust or self hate. Now, I don't think that white people, in large measure, sit around plotting our demise, but to the extent that they view themselves as 'people' and they (with our assistance) view non-whites as 'other (than) people' like themselves, it allows or perpetuates condescension and paternalistic behaviour which is ultimately bad for us. RM's 'ohh, let us pity the poor savages and help them'.

Now Reiha, your post begats some questions (damn, I'm nothing if not consistent!) So, you grew up ABC - any brothers? Any ABC boys in the neighborhood? School? Irrespective of the actual answer, there certainly are MEN that grew up ABC too. So it would stand to reason that they would have similar 'AMERICAN' cultural norms and values too. Remember, 'culture' is NOT carried in the DNA, so it doesn't tranfer like eyelids, lips, skin colour, etc. If it did, then you would long to be a 'wife' and not a 'modern woman' using your rationale. It would seem that you think of the 'American' part of ABC as synonomous with white. This is key to RM's post (and mine earlier). Umm, last time I checked, some 35% of America is NOT white, so where are those folks from to you? Are they squatters? Interlopers? Illegals? It would seem that you have not met any 'modern' latino, black, arabic, indian or - dare i say it - asian men in your travels. This seems unlikely at best (unless you are in Idaho, and then 'modern' might be the sore point). But maybe you have developed a mote in your eye which seems to make those non-whites 'invisible' or at least un-American. Why? How? Why wouldn't the same 'A' factor you cite as your 'influence' affect any other American-born whomever?

Now, I fully agree with your 'hippie' sentiment, but a question that you might ask yourself is did you effectively 'rule out' certain types of persons based on a pre-conceived notion of what they must be 'about' because of a limited definition of 'American'?

Now, this thread has long left the realm of getting Phil the 'hook-up' but, a casual review of statistics would indicate that AA women (Note: in order to use that shorthand, one must 'assume' a definition for 'AA', which by defacto, means that you've excluded certain types of people out of 'habit'). Sharpened pencil - AznAm women 'outmarry' at at rate that is only matched by Jews and white Hispanics ('white' Hispanics would be the european descendants that reside - and dominate - mexico, cuba, and latin america - for which Hugo Chavez and his ilk are the bane of their existence) this rate is nominally reported at over 30%.

Assuming you can get past the question of 'why so many?', consider this, if the 'hippie' mentality was the pure driver, one would assume that the mix of outmarried AznAM women would distribute themselves across the population relatively evenly with the overall demographics; 15% to latinos, 15% to blacks, 65% to whites and 5% to 'others'. but they don't. not even close. the mix is over 98% to whites. apparently either latinos, blacks, and 'others' don't find AznAm women attractive or AznAm women don't 'consider' non-whites, other than Azn Men, viable. I am betting its the latter if the constant refrain of 'uncontrollable fetishism' is to be believed.

So, to what do we attribute what would arguably be seen as (from the statistical evidence) a verficiation of RememberMe?'s variant on the 'Stockholm Hostage' theory - they have sided with their oppressors? Reiha, this is not to attack you personally, you may have much more in common with this specific white man than any other man you've met, but it would seem pretty amazing that in the broad array of statistical evidence provided, that Azn/Am women almost ONLY find common interests with white men and those that don't are almost always filipina, hapa, or SE asian and rarely east asian (korean, japanese or chinese) - your personal knowledge of an 'exception' notwithstanding. WE all know, but don't speak to, the 'pecking order' in the pan Asian cornicopia.

Wouldn't one expect a greater and broader 'commonality' of interests across a spectrum of 'Americans' assuming a relatively uniform culture, such that we are defining it as 'American'?
But we don't see it. Something has prevented this acceptance of pan-American culturalism from really leaping across ethnic boundaries amongst the 'wretched of the earth' - the evidence of things not seen - James Baldwin.

damn this got long! sorry 'bout that. peace.

PS. Phil - hit those Ethiopian restaurants in Ohio - the women are fine! and they have great food!

You know,

there are lots of asian woman in this world. They just don't live in the US. All you need is a ticket. Any place over there would find your exotic American-ness most appealing. Also, if you want to date White girls, then just go to the source. Europe. Again, your Asian-American-Ness is just so incredibly sexy anywhere on the continent of Europe.

To get a date. My advice--get out of the US.

I did. I have never looked back.

It was indeed exhilirating to be checked out by chicks. Good looking ones at that. If you are well developed by American standards, you are positively Arnold over there.

Yikes, the girls behind the lunch counter. The incredibly sexy girls on scooters slowing down to check you out. For a poor, short, near-sighted Chinese boy from an all white neighborhood, this was something so unexpected my socks kept coming off.

And so I ended up in a bar. And so I asked the absolute cutest girl in the place for a date. And so we fell in love and got married. Honestly, 2 kids later, it has been quite a life. And I have just begun.

I am glad that I grew up in the US. I speak with the Franca Lingua of this new world civilization. I am both the kick-ass Americano and the wise subtle Chinee. Yes, my brothers we will rule the world. The rest of the world will only realize once it is too late. Goody for folk like us.

gg

Sorry asian guys......

Some girls are just now slaves to their parents......

There is no conspiracy......

You can fuck who u want......

I hope more asians learn that.....

Peace

and thus spoke zarathustra???

you can (or should) only fuck who wants to fuck you.

"When you control a man's [or woman's] thinking you do not have to worry about his actions. You do not have to tell him not to stand here or go yonder. He will find his "proper place" and will stay in it. You do not need to send him to the back door. He will go without being told. In fact, if there is no back door, he will cut one for his special benefit. His education makes it necessary." - Carter G. Woodson

"Sorry asian guys......"
----Sorry ThyHorrorCosmic,

"Some girls are just now slaves to their parents......"
----Some morons have serious reading problems......

"There is no conspiracy......"
----Nobody said a fucking thing about any fucking conspiracy at any fucking time.....

"You can fuck who u want......"
----Why don't you take your own advice: fuck off........

"I hope more asians learn that....."
---I hope yellow-fevered losers learn what it means to respect themselves and others.....

"Peace"
---uh, Peace.

Phil U., how are you doing out there in the heartland? Making any progress?

White women are the least liberated at least here in the US. Some do date black men, but very few. Many date Hispanics, but these are Hispanics who are closer to being white. It enables these women's future children to enjoy the privileges of the white society and also benefit from Affirmative Action. White girls and women of mixed white Hispanic and white non-Hispanic parents seem to enjoy the privilege of both being a white as well as a minority.

Asian men, myself included are the lowest in the totem pole. Most are not classified as disadvantaged and hence are not included in most affirmative action programs. And Asian men do not have the privilege of being white. Marrying an Asian man means marrying down form most white women and hence it does not happen often. These are statements of facts, not self pity or whining.

Well George I can accept some of your facts and not others.

As to 'liberated' women, most of the 'Women's Liberation Movement' has been spearheaded, and focused on, white, middle class women. So much so that there is some tension between these 'movement groups' and women of color who feel that their issues are ignored by groups like NOW.

Also, I believe that white women marry 'outside their race' more than any other group even if we 'normalize' the statistics for your very apt discussion of the white\hispanic intermarriage rate, [an illustration - Cameron Diaz could claim to be hispanic by virtue of the 'Diaz' but she would hardly be considered 'a women of color' if you look at her. This is a common situation for many 'hispanics'. It is one of the many flaws in the racial 'classification' system.], other than asian women when you factor in their (asian women) marrying white men (nominally 25 - 30%). If you left out the asian woman\white man couples, I think asian women would score near the bottom in terms of 'out-marrying'.

The chief beneficiaries of 'affirmative action' have been, and still are white women - whether they are married to hispanics or not.

As for Asian men being 'lowest on the totem pole', I don't know exactly which pole you mean, but Asians are considered 'minorities' so programs designed to assist minority and women owned businesses do help asian men. This is reinforced by the program at the recent NAAAP convention on "How to get Certified as a MBE" (Minority Business Enterprise).

Asian men also outearn black and hispanic men. So I don't know if you are at the 'bottom' of any totem - unless it is the 'bagging a white girl' totem.

For that you may have to work on your 'rap', learn to hold your breath and develop a fondness for 'diving'. Not too fast, not too slow, not too hard, not too soft. Try to hum while you do it - it makes the time go faster.

This dialogue drifted while I disappeared!


Just checking in...nothing new here questioner...as before, I have things to work on on my own before the whole relationship thing.


But I still feel disadvantaged in the whole "game."


I am not a member of the model minority, so people who even think I may at least be a doctor or engineer will be displeased...although the values of those who judge others' success based on such criteria are not people I should find much in common with anyway...right?


I'm not tall (seems to be a uh, large issue), or attractive by traditional standards...


Which I think rules out a lot of people: those who value "high class" professions, and those who value aesthetic. I can see good in both, but I don't fit either model perfectly, or closely really. So I still think it will be tough, because despite how much people don't say they value such things, I think there is at least a little bit of that kind of discrimination initially. And that's where it counts.


In the meantime I'd rather work on my own life anyway...there's a lot to do and perhaps as a defense mechanism, I feel like there's not enough time for a relationship.


BUT, I do wish I just had more female encounters--as friends (and as before, a lot of females seem to want husbands, and not just friends).


Who knows! I'd like to think it would work out, but I have basically no female friends, and I don't know how this came to be. Waaah.


I haven't even had a real date in my life. :-/


Thanks for asking though...hopefully something will manifest soon. I do believe that I have a greater advantage the more I work on my own life. So here we go...

I have one solution....Let's all stick to our own kind...If we did that this wouldn't be an issue...
Why are you all trying to analyse why "this race" is not liking "that race"...."Why this??Why that??Let's see....hmmmm... "This is my theory"....

I can care less if white,black,hispanic or any other females do not find me attractive or don't see me as husband/boyfriend material...I'm on this freaking planet for a purpose......
it sure isn't figuring out what another IMPERFECT human being thinks of me..

Phil: "I do wish I just had more female encounters--as friends (and as before, a lot of females seem to want husbands, and not just friends)."

You are hanging out in the wrong crowd dude! There are plenty of women who want guys as friends, not just mates. If the women you are meeting seem to only care about career and aesthetics (ie status) as you claim, then you are hanging round the wrong places and around the wrong people. Go out there and do something you like and maybe you won't meet such shallow people.

Rick: Stick to our own kind? Now, I'm all for Asians loving other Asians, but come on, this is America in the 21st century, not the 50s. You can't go around these days sticking to your own and not interacting with different people.

Anna,I never said anything about not interacting with other people.I interact with people of different races all the time.I was referring to not getting involved romantically.

It's wonderful to have friends of other races,but when it comes to romance...

...you should find someone you love and that loves you and together you make each other feel better and stronger. and that means you shouldn't lock people out because of their race because you might miss the person that fits best with you.

Rick, When I talk of interacting with other people, I do mean in a romantic way, since this whole thread is about romance. Or at least how to get some dates.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to look for a partner of your own ethnicity to date. Of course you should -- there are a lot of things that just feel right when you're with someone from the same culture. You just don't have to explain a lot of shit.

And I understand how it can be a political choice for some people, to say, as a minority, "I'm not going to date any white people." However, to say that you're only going to date just one ethnicity and not even look at anyone else, how is that a solution? You're completely ignoring the whole social fabric of this country and discounting the experiences of many Asian Americans. And sometimes, depending on where someone may be, there just aren't a whole lot of us around.

And as a questioner says, you might miss out on someone great because ultimately it comes down to personality, not ethnicity, don't you think?

So Phil,
how's 'the project' going? Of course, the unexamined life is not worth living. But don't get analysis paralysis either!

Remember try dining Ethiopian! Great food and you can eat with your hands! Very healthy too!

(I'm talking about food here!!!)

Be Happy.

Wow, I didn't realize so many people were interested in the romantic lives of Asian men. I suppose I find it rather intriguing and also a bit silly.

As an American-born Chinese guy in my 30s, I should say that I don't recall ever having been bitter about dating; so I don't paricularly relate to the perspective of the Bitter Asian Men website. Over the years I've dated women of almost every ethnicity -- black, white, East Asian, South Asian, Arab, Latina -- without giving the matter as much thought as has been poured into this thread. If I'm interested in a woman and she's interested in me, great. If not, great. I see no reason to resent women who aren't interested in me, whatever their reasons.

As I see it, the reasons a woman might not be interested in a paricular Asian man are probably the same reasons she's not interested in a man of any other background: he's just not a turn-on for her, it's just not a match, maybe he has bad style, or talks and acts like a dork, or simply doesn't project confidence or strength or sensitivity.

Indeed, the entire Bitter Asian Men perspective strikes me as a turn-off, a self-indulgent self-pitying excuse for not being in control of your own life and not having the guts to do something about it. It's a whiny disempowering self-fulfilling prophecy.

On the other hand, I do recognize that racial stereotypes exist and affect the way people perceive one another. The ridiculous stereotype of the emasculated Asian male probably doesn't help adolescent guys trying to learn how to approach women. But who said life was fair? We all have uphill battles to fight in a world characterized by white male supremacy.

My unsolicited and probably unwelcome advice to bitter Asian men: don't whine, don't blame women for not being attracted to you, don't feel sorry for yourself; have some guts, have some authentic style, empower yourself. In the words of the great funkster George Clinton, Free your mind and your ass will follow.

Peace,
Kai

"I find it curious that many Asian American entrants, even those with a perfect command of English, don't use the first- person narrative. The word "I" doesn't appear on the page, leaving writers to struggle with the awkward "one,"

I'M Asian and I think this thread is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

"I don't know what's up with Asian women who won't date Asian men. Hey, it's their loss." My question is, "who really cares?". It's nobody's loss. If anything, why cant we be once happy for the happily engaged couples? Why do we always have to be so negative and judge other asians (or whites) whether who they should date or not? Most importantly, why is this even a race issue, just simply because an Asian woman is dating a white man, as if it's such a taboo? There are more important things to be bitter about and its not about this petty annoyance.

Zashiki, Who cares? Well lots of people care. Lots of people care so much that everytime we bring up dating, the issue of white men and Asian women couples comes up and people go on and on about it. It IS a race issue because Asian American women outmarry at a high rate and when they do, it's mostly to white men. Why is that? Something to think about. This is not about one specific person dating another person that we know. This thread is about a pattern, and what leads to that pattern. So people put forth their theories: white as "right" and upward mobility? Emasculation of Asian American men? Perception of Asian American men as sexist by Asian American women? Self hate? This thread is really a disucssion of how Asian Americans fit into our soceity.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be happy for happy couples. No one is trying to undermine the happiness of people in love. This thread isn't about happy couples though.

I see. But what if it was a reversed role? Do we give Asian American women more kudos if we hear them say instead "I only date Asian men?". That would only narrow their standards, as well. Pattern or not, those self-deprecating Asian men who sees this as a threat must have inferiority complex. Keep in mind, we ARE in a country filled with different races/nationality. We're all bound to date other than our own race.

Sadly, because of this... we are losing our touch of our roots. I say, carry your heritage to your tombstone. But realistically, in this country, that will slowly dissipate.

Nice thing is that I've been seeing ALOT of Asian American men dating white women, as well. I dont go around being bitter about it, either. I'm hoping there would be more of interracial couples, so there would be less of this self-deprecating and self-pity remarks.

I don't think we should give anyone -- men or women -- props for dating only their own kind (as someone else above suggested as a solution to this "problem.") It makes perfect sense, as you say, that we are bound to date people of other races given the makeup of our society (and the fact that Asian Americans are still a small percentage of it.)

I'm certain someone has done a study on interracial couples and I would bet it's on the rise. I would bet there's also been an increase in interethnic (is that a word?) couples, ie, Asians dating other Asians of a different ethnicity.

BTW, we have some interesting data on the dating habits of Asian Americans in the new issue of Hyphen. When we conducted our own study on dating and sex, we found that 35 percent of thsoe reponding tended to date other Asian Americans, 30 percent had no preference for any ethnicity, and of those who did have a preference for a specific ethnicity or race, the majority of those -- 21 percent -- opted mostly for whites. (Only 1 percent each had a thing for African Americans or Latinos). Which brings us back to the question in this thread. Why white?

Why white? Because we live in a white male supremacy.

Kai Chang, it is a white male dominated society from an economic and political standpoint, but I think Melissa's question (Why White) leads back to 'why are Asians - and most notably and predominantly Asian women - so much, much, much more inclined to date\mate Whites at the near exclusion of all other 'non-Asian' catagories. This becomes especially confusing when you hear relatively widespread complaints about the 'white male hegemony' as a negative thing. See, it seems people are grumpy about white men 'running tings' but then go out and marry them anyway. Things that make you go 'hmmm'? I've heard comments that call Asians 'honorary white people' or at least the allegation that some Asians think of themselves that way. Is this 'out marrying' thing an indication of that? If so, why and why with women and not men?

Seriously George and Phil U,

You guys got to stop whining. I apologize for being blunt. I made that first statement because I’ve read all of your comments and came to realization that you guys constructed your own miseries. What I mean is that you guys got hurt once (by white girls, Asian girls, or society in general) and then found ways to justify staying hurt. An example is when one of you said that Asian men are at the bottom of the totem pole because you couldn’t get a decent Asian girl (or a decent white girl) to f*ck [which is your own limiting belief that caused you guys perpetual hurt], and that girls (particularly Asian girls, relating to the thread’s subject) choose white guys; this was based on, I’m assuming, the former inabilities to lead and retain normal relationships with Asian and/or white girls [your temporary hurt]. My point is: don’t keep yourself down, guys, if you think that the society hates Asian guys then you’ll walk around wounded and then everyone (including the girls in our race) would think lowly of you. Walk straight up and “smile, and the world will smile with you.” I’m talking from experience guys.

I was a limping Asian dude UNTIL I started thinking that I needed to IMPROVE MYSELF, instead of beating myself down. And guess what? I met lots of hot white girls and girls of other ethnic groups who thought and still think that being with me and around me is “a step up,” and not “a step down” as what someone in your mind frame might think. How did I meet them? By doing activities (hobbies, etc.) that I enjoying doing and they happened to be there, not by chasing them down the street like a dirty pervert or leering at them from afar.

Oh, and all my serious relationships happened to be with petite blondes. But I also love Asian girls. And for some reason they love me back. That “some reason” is that THEY FELT PLEASURE AROUND ME BECAUSE I MADE THEM COMFORTABLE… BY BEING COMFORTABLE WITH MYSELF. I remember this gorgeous, sensual Filipina-cross-Chinese girl. I met her in only two months and we instantly became extremely close with each other. I hung out with her, a lot, but not on this one occasion-- I had a friend come hang out with me at the local Barnes & Noble café; he was Asian as well. He rushed to the café table and told me that he saw a hot Asian girl who was dressed in flirty, really short shorts, and a tight v-neck vintage t-shirt in the B&N book area, when he came in. It was her, my female friend; she was in this big bookstore and I must have not seen her. I didn’t plan on her being there.

In the café chair he told me that he wanted to bone her. He didn’t know her (*he also didn’t know that she was a very close friend of mine). I thought that it would be interesting to see how he would act on his comment to me about boning her, so I encouraged him to go walk to the book display, where she was standing, and talk to her, and get her to come over or whatever. He said, “No way.” He was intimidated by her “healthy” appearance. Plus, he saw her talking to a white guy earlier-- he told me that. He instantly thought that this hot Asian girl would never be seen dead with an Asian guy (he assumed wrong; she and I hung out a lot and spend lots of time at each other’s place. And that mentality stopped him from meeting her. It also caused him to immediately act depressed. I was not amused at his self-defeating attitude. “If he didn’t have the balls to want to met that Asian girl, my close friend, then why would I call her over to sit down with us,” I thought to myself. So when she walked towards the door to leave the bookstore, I hid my face behind a magazine I was reading because I didn’t want her to come over to the café table if she saw me. [Side note: if my guy friend actually went up to talk to her, I would immediately wave to her and get her and him to sit down together with me at the café table. From that common ground, they would probably be in the sack together after a couple of dates. But it didn’t happened. By the way, I didn’t want to date her myself because I was enjoying free time for myself. I recently stop dating three girls that I was non-exclusively being with. (Not at the same time, you pervert.)]

The moral of the story is… don’t assume that it’s the girl’s fault (believing that she doesn’t like to be around Asian guys or date Asian guys) that you, an Asian guy, didn’t talk to the girl, but instead realize that everything is within your realm to make real.

Man, that was wordy. Wasn’t it? Okay, in shorthand: Stop screwing yourselves over with that head of yours, and start screwing girls with that “head” of yours.

would be to 'screw' women? Not get to know them, but just screw them. hmmmm.
you are 'smooth like butter', buddy.

I am a chinese girl and I am dating an indian guy. I never hear about asians and indians, although indian is technically asian. Does society look down on this? Do I even need to be concerned with what others think?

well Tami, one reason you might never (or rarely) hear about your type of pairing is becasue it is rare. Or so the posts on the subject would indicate. But I don't know, I don't take polls or surveys on the matter.

More importantly, do you like/love your 'significant other'? does the idea of people looking 'down' on your relationship trouble you? by the converse, does the idea that people might look 'up' to you because of a different relationship appeal to you? What 'society' are you looking to for validation? White people? Chinese people? Indian people? Short people? (maybe it would be easier to get them to look up!)

And what does 'technically asian' mean?? Is there some litmus test? Some standard unit of measure for 'asian-ness'? Help me out here.

'Are you a bitter asian man' The answer is yes. Too much competition and too few asian women. I admit that during my time in the U.K. I have never dated a asian girl and Im 35 years old.

'Down with white culture and racist bigots'

People that exist in one society have general belief, which can be different to another society because it is a totally different culture. This is evident in other ethnic minorities e.g. black that co-exist with whites, etc because they believe in the exact stereotypes as each other. Generally it is considered that social groups often have the same or about the same opinions as each other. Stereotypes do not operate within a distinct group but in the culture that they in. These are set by media and social group representation, and generalisation stereotypes of other minorities.

Most perpetrators of racism are mostly directed by whites against A/M from both sexes. While racism towards A/F, is few or none at all compared to the A/M. A/M will suffer the bluntest and direct form of racism. It is also the sole reason why there are relatively few white females that like A/M and why there is so many W/M, A/F pairings. Most A/F do not take this to account. A/M have to scacrifice and suffer, so that love between a A/F to a white male. Who is obvious ignorant of the racism directed towards their own men.

Most asian men who read these sites are angry that their own women are running off with white men. They cannot accept that their own women or sisters prefer white culture to there own, when this culture has been a major factor and played a pivotal part directly against the Asian culture but especially against Asian men. A/F who date outside their race particular whites don’t really care about racial factor they only care about what happens in real life or from there experience and this has shown that the whites treat them better or even better than A/M, based on the stereotypes, which is why most don’t care or even bother with racial stereotypical factors because benefits them. The stereotypes have prevented a lot of good Asian men from getting girlfriends, who try extremely hard not to go down the stereotypical path that most white people would believe, and thus the Asian male suffer from the same stereotypical views by the A/F brought up in a white culture or by their own women and also by the whites. They are angry because white culture has treated them badly, opposed to A/F who do not seem to understand or care the racial factors that are involved and how important they are.

I can relate to the bitter asian male, because I am one of them. When asian women talk down about Asian culture and uplift white American culture, it disturbs me.



I think there are a number of factors that contribute to that:




1) Asian culture tends to be male dominant. Women are looked down upon and raised to be submissive. Western culture, however, recognizes more freedom and rights towards women.



2) Asians pose the strongest threat to whites. Asians in America make just as much money, go to the top universities, and are sucessful. Being a strong threat, white culture has to belittle us, to still feel dominant. Examples, are asian men are too nerdy, or they have small penises, or they are not athletic or sexual.



3)Western culture is deeply ingrown in asian culture. Even though many of our parents abide by traditions, western culture has its influence. Popular example, is how parents favor light skin children. Even worst, saying that marrying a white american will give beautiful grandchildren. Substitute the same sentence with african american and you know what the parents will say.



Now when i hear asian women degrade their own culture, I tell them: Your even more Asian because you would rather embrace the White western culture than empower your own. I am still a bitter asian male, but knowing that I am not alone, gives sweet hope.

Seven Years in Tibet was a sweet movie. Asians love me.

? ? ? ? ? ? ?!

to all asians:

don't let people use you (especially the whites). asian culture will always be dominated by whites. that's why we're the only group of people who are targeted, and not others. i really, really, really h8 that enormously. we're not special people. in fact, no one is. you also can't change your race. you are who you are.

comment deleted for utterly, inexcusably racist content (seriously folks, don't do it.)

comment deleted for utterly, inexcusably racist content (seriously folks, don't do it.)

Ugh. keep your misogyny to yourself.

comment deleted for utterly, inexcusably racist content (seriously folks, don't do it.)

you know who i don't like? you, aznivr69.

it's one thing to praise asian women. another to degrade other kinds of women.

this discussion is disgusting, we should proper ourselves in other ways, we should find strength in ourselves. We won the korean war, half of japanese empire has been cut up and given to us for peaceful resolution of WW2. We are not happy, we shouldnt be happy we must aid those who are beneficial to us, for example the al qaida.

you guys worship Caucasions?

I would really like to applaud this blog. A lot of genuine points being made. I'm a white male who grew up In and all black town. I am also first generation american. I feel like somehow because of this I have a kinship with asian men. I kind of understand their anger. White men say the same thing around here. I think in the end asian men get screwed by the numbers. If an insignificant amount of white men date asian women, because of the population differences you get hit waaay harder. Some of those guys have fetishes (a lot of them are fascinated with asian culture in general so it applies), but not all of them. I think if it's a situation where the asian partner was adopted or in an area where they are the only asian then it's prbly true love on the white persons side. Maybe on the asian partners side it could be a subconcious longing for full acceptance. These people also have based their whole lives around a white pop. so that's how they norm their standards. In the end it's a tough situation you guys are in, I can only say it'll get better for you in the next couple of years. As for white women who date non white men but not asian men, I would say from growing up in the community that I did, a lot of them are rebelling against their dad or responding to what they define as hip on mtv. Asian men are so close to white, they're just not rebellious enough. This is all based on women under the age of 19 so they aren't making mature decisions about relationship, so take my observations with a grain of salt.

Single Asian Man seeks Asian woman who is through with getting fucked by white men.

woo Strongyyellow woman, strong comment, but im a big fan of Muhammad Ali. He was the best, and an example to all who can relate not falling for that mainstream trap. Al Queda well thats to extreme.

I'm a white female and I am really attracted to asian men, I understand that there may not be a lot of girl out there like me, but there are people out here how like asian men. I tend to feel the same of what you are saying here. I mostly see Asian men with Asian women and I feel really intimidated to go up to an Asian guy and talk to him, because I'm afraid he might think me some awkward American girl or something like that.

As for "fetish", I feel that refers to mainly just sexual things or pleasurable things in general, so I wouldn't really use it unless I was describing a girl that wanted to get it on with only asian men, or something. As many people have stated, people are sometimes more attracted to one race, just based on their own preferences than others. I happen to like guys with dark hair and dark eyes and a bit shorter than most, and Asians fit into that category.

I really think that Asian men should feel comfortable asking a Caucasian, Latino, African American, or any race out there. If a girl rejects you because of your race, it's because the girl is either an idiot, superficial, a racist, a combination of these or all of the above. So please, if you like a girl of a different race, don't feel afraid that she might not like you because you aren't blue eyed and blonde and might be a bit shorter than most American men. That's selling yourself really short.

I do also think that a lot of asian men, especially men that have recently come over don't tend to marry or date American women because of cultural standards back in their home countries. Obviously, most Asian countries consider the man as the held of the family and that's a fact that we can't get around. Sometimes it's hard for them to get over these cultural differences, but also I think they might stereotype foreign women as all being head-strong, domineering, controlling people, which not all of us are.

(But I'm sure most of the people here have lived here most of their lives or a large part of it and have adjusted quite a bit to the American culture.)

It has been suggested that Asian women date white men because it is a bump up in status. I am Indian (South Asian) and I have to say that is completely false where it relates to South Asians. I have a few relatives that married white people and they are basically outcasts with regard to our community. In American society I can see that it would make life easier with respect to day-to-day life. I've noticed that I get better treatment at resteraunts, grocery stores, shopping malls and even when I am using public transportation when I am out with my white friends as opposed to by myself or with my east and south asian friends. It can be hurtful to have people glare at you with unfriendly stares and sometimes people can make comments that make you feel horrible. It is understandable that girls would want to be with white guys, consciously or subconsciously, as a sort of defense mechanism rather than a status thing.

Well, hmmmmm, judging from DR's comment, the South Asian/Indian, I suggest you take a gooood look around; not only is it IN FACT considered by most asian men of all stripe a "trophy" to nab a white woman, be she of Latina or Caucasian background, but quiiiite a few do marry them: I know, sweety, because I am in fact one. And most of the Gujrati Indian females here in Latinamerica are green with envy, they are the nastiest and most spiteful lot I and many of my non-asian gf have ever ever come across.
More and more Pakistanis(like my hubby of 15 years)and Indians are choosing western women over their narrow-minded ignorant and thus booooring so-called "Desi" women; except for the few here who are getting educated, going out in the world, lightening up about society in general and learning not to fall into the whole bitchy female Indian culture. They become just the same as their own saas(mom-in-lwas) if not....bitter, and alone emotionally. Just ask my hubby Shawkat Ali and his friends why they prefer western women!!

Dawn,
i don't know where DR is, but if you are in South or Central America and he is North America or India for that matter, there are very different racial dynamics between the locations, so you might be coming from a completely different frame of reference on that point. AND I think you have completely flipped the gender script from DR. You seem to be talking Asian man/ white woman and DR was talking asian women/white men.

it would not be suprising to me that asian women could hate the idea that an asian man is with a white woman but not hate the idea of an asian women being with a white man. the former creates a sense of rejection by the one who is supposed to love you; the latter may create a sense of elevated stature because the 'dominant male' has selected her above all others (fueling a sense of superiority).

what happens when you thow those details into your mix?

Right...I am from Australia (dark deatures - white skin) - and recently I was accepted to the top school in Sydney - and it is FULL of Asians. I am a white and I am madly in love with a guy from Singapore...we shared a special moment last year...anyways now that we see each other everyday day at school - he acts as though we shared nothing...like he is ashamed or something. He is tall and athletic plus smart. I am tall, state debater, footballer and I am told that I am attractive (though I don't see it)...sounds like we would make the perfect couple?? WRONG!! Now that I see his social group, he only talks to asians...yes, that means he only seems to show an interest in asian girls (or maybe that due to the fact that there is only asians to talk to...u can count the number of non-asians on your hand)...what should i do?? Please note that prior to this attraction, I used to think alll asians looked the same and would NEVER consider dating an asian...man have I changed!!

Aussie girl, that is one man, so don't think that all Asian men are exactly like him! I'm sure that there are some asians at the school that don't just hang out with each other.

As for relationship advice.. I don't think this is the best place to ask for it necessarily.

I think Aussie girl situation
provides us with a real life
example of how Asian men will
not date outside of their race.

Growing up Asian, my mother would
relentlessly repeat the dictum
not to date girls that are not
1) Chinese or 2) Christian.
Furthermore, even if they are Chinese
they should not be from China..
I dunno how she feels about HK, but
I assume that means only Asian
American women or Taiwanese women.
Or maybe some Chinese from the
Diaspora.

That being said, I do find myself
attracted to women of other races,
whether one would actually date
me is an entirely different issue..
but it's all a number's game. I'm
bound to find one that can see
past skin color, since my own
values probably aren't too much
different from her own:
self-serving and successful.

I think my experience is emblematic
of most conservative, 2 countries
and 50 years separated from
confusciasm, republican for the money,
with a smidgeon of Christian ethos
Asian culture. Of course everyone
deviates.. but i think the experience
is the same.

We want to date outside
our race, but because we are all
so subconsciously conformist, we
fear the repercussions or maybe there just isn't any real world examples of Asian mean dating outside their own race.. maybe except by these messiahs
on the internet..

Deep down we want to recreate the
stable family image we ourselves
may have experienced. Support
our parents, have children
that are good at whatever they
want to pursue, doesn't matter
so much if the firstborne is a son,
or if it's two daughters..
As Asian american men, we are a culture
who's values as a whole are changing.

I'm sorry to Aussie girl for being
one of those Asian men who could
not escape his cultural identity,
and honestly u shouldn't waste your
time with guys like us and look
for someone more accepting,whether
he's white or some inferior color.
Looks really aren't all the important anyway.

He'd probably just brag to his friends
how he got a white girl anyway.

To Dawn Marie-Ali: Ive been all over the Pacific and if I had to choose between Western, and Eastern, Ill pick Eastern Women any day. Theres really nothing special about Western Women. Ive been to India, Malaysia, and Singapore. Large Indian populations, Indian woman along with Spanish woman are the best in the World.

To keiriruisu:
I am truly sorry, I did not mean to use this site as a means to use and abuse when I requested advice…I guess I meant it to be a rhetorical-like question. And concerning your response, yes it is true that there are other Asians (a very small minority) who do seem to enjoy the companion of non-Asians…however it is not the same, these are non-Asians males with Asian females. Perhaps I did not make myself clear (I probably sounded too dramatic), when I wrote “FULL of Asians”…that is what I meant – need proof?? Well this year seven, out of 150 students that are enrolled, ALL of them are Asians (NB I am including Indians in this statistic – however, the majority are of Asian heredity). Please do not form the wrong idea of Australia, this is the first time ever that this enrolment figure has occurred also you must keep in mind that this school is the top school in Sydney (I think in Australia as well) academically thus subsequently it would have a lot of Asians (no offense, but Asians are placed under a lot of pressure from the word go…).

To jimshi:
I would firstly like to point out that you sound very educated and thus I consider your words very valuable. About Christianity being important, we met at a Christian camp…thus we have one VERY important thing in common. He is not one to ‘brag’ (that term is not used here much in Australia – I have only stumbled across it in American novels and movies), yes he does enjoy the attention of others, yet I am sure he would not exploit the situation and ‘brag’. He still has strong ties with his culture, yet seems to have really adjusted to the Australian culture (he was born here) as well; I could even go as far as saying ‘mastering it’. However the same cannot be said about his parents and older sisters (who have married Asians). May I ask you a question (anyone else can feel free to respond as well) – why did you write… “He’d probably just brag to his friends how he got a white girl anyway”…I mean what is there to ‘brag’ about? Do Asians assume that ‘white-girls’ (NB yes I am white, however my eye and hair features are dark and due to my exposure to the sun I am relatively tanned – or am I taken that too literal??) are more superior than ‘asian-girls’ – why?? I mean asian girls are thin with straight silky hair (in most circumstances)…thus it cannot be a physical barrier, what else??

NB Prior to meeting him, I was with a British for 2-3 year, I broke up with him because I honestly shared a real innocent yet beautiful moment with the Asian – as a result the British had a nervous break down. It was not a physical attraction to the Asian (as opposed to the British) but a spiritual and internal attraction, so please do not create the wrong impression of me (after all, if feels as though I am representing Australia girls and the Australia Asian men on this blog…LOL)

Oh and another thing, you Americans are really fast in replying…I am truly impressed!!

To keiriruisu:
I am truly sorry, I did not mean to use this site as a means to use and abuse when I requested advice…I guess I meant it to be a rhetorical-like question. And concerning your response, yes it is true that there are other Asians (a very small minority) who do seem to enjoy the companion of non-Asians…however it is not the same, these are non-Asians males with Asian females. Perhaps I did not make myself clear (I probably sounded too dramatic), when I wrote “FULL of Asians”…that is what I meant – need proof?? Well this year seven, out of 150 students that are enrolled, ALL of them are Asians (NB I am including Indians in this statistic – however, the majority are of Asian heredity). Please do not form the wrong idea of Australia, this is the first time ever that this enrolment figure has occurred also you must keep in mind that this school is the top school in Sydney (I think in Australia as well) academically thus subsequently it would have a lot of Asians (no offense, but Asians are placed under a lot of pressure from the word go…).

To jimshi:
I would firstly like to point out that you sound very educated and thus I consider your words very valuable. About Christianity being important, we met at a Christian camp…thus we have one VERY important thing in common. He is not one to ‘brag’ (that term is not used here much in Australia – I have only stumbled across it in American novels and movies), yes he does enjoy the attention of others, yet I am sure he would not exploit the situation and ‘brag’. He still has strong ties with his culture, yet seems to have really adjusted to the Australian culture (he was born here) as well; I could even go as far as saying ‘mastering it’. However the same cannot be said about his parents and older sisters (who have married Asians). May I ask you a question (anyone else can feel free to respond as well) – why did you write… “He’d probably just brag to his friends how he got a white girl anyway”…I mean what is there to ‘brag’ about? Do Asians assume that ‘white-girls’ (NB yes I am white, however my eye and hair features are dark and due to my exposure to the sun I am relatively tanned – or am I taken that too literal??) are more superior than ‘asian-girls’ – why?? I mean asian girls are thin with straight silky hair (in most circumstances)…thus it cannot be a physical barrier, what else??

NB Prior to meeting him, I was with a British for 2-3 year, I broke up with him because I honestly shared a real innocent yet beautiful moment with the Asian – as a result the British had a nervous break down. It was not a physical attraction to the Asian (as opposed to the British) but a spiritual and internal attraction, so please do not create the wrong impression of me (after all, if feels as though I am representing Australia girls and the Australia Asian men on this blog…LOL)

Oh and another thing, you Americans are really fast in replying…I am truly impressed!!

WHOOPS - I accidently sent it twice!!

Aussie Girl, hey, I didn't mean any offence, I was just trying to point out that maybe if you wanted real advice about it you might not be able to find it here, hehe.

As for jimshi, I feel really bad that you feel as though you can't "escape your cultural identity". I realize it's a big issue to marry someone of a different race in a lot of Asian families. I've never personally had my parents say I couldn't date/marry a specific race, so I don't really know what that's like. I didn't think there was THAT much pressure to marry within your specific race/religion. I almost want to say, "get over it, you are an adult and can make your own decisions" easily, because I've had disagreements about my future/life with my parents, but I've never had them tell me I had to do something like that, so I know that I might do just as you are now. I can tell that you obviously value your family, and it would be a big choice to do something you know they would dissaprove of. Maybe your mother could change her mind sometime, maybe after seeing a successful relationship between a Chinese and non-Chinese person.. I don't know. It just seems really sad that you can't date/marry people like that because you don't want to dissapoint your mother. But good luck, either way, ne?

I stumbled upon this website by accident and found myself very interested in what everyone has had to say.
As a white woman, I find it difficult to listen to talk of white women as being thought of as the 'gold standard'. I certainly think the media and the (unfair) power distributions in this country over the ages have done more than their share in perpetuating white women as the 'ideal'. Personally, this makes me extremely uncomfortable & I hope it changes. I don't want someone dating me for my whiteness, as if I'm a trophy, anymore than an Asian-American male would want to be rejected solely due to his ethnicity.
That said, I recently ended a relationship was with a Filipino-American man. He was my first 'serious' interracial dating experience. I reluctantly admit that in the beginning, I had to deal with subconsciously internalized stereotypes associated w/ asian males & sexuality. I liked him, we got along great, had tons in common, but I was starting to think of him in non-sexual terms only. I challenged my newly unhidden stereotypes. (There is nothing more unpleasant for a liberal white feminist to discover she has (EEK!) somehow developed and not yet overcame some stereotypical thought pattern!) I gave this guy a second chance and was pleasantly surprised.
I also admit that following our relationship, when I see an attractive asian male, I do often give him a second look. Have I developed a fetish? No. I'm simply more open to my dating possiblities. Would I date another asian-american man? Yes, just as I would date any other race/ethnicity. If anything, I'm a little turned off by white men as of late because many (w/o being too stereotypical!) seem ambivalent to their white male privelege, which, frankly, is a turn-off.
These are just the experiences & opinions of one German-Czech-Scottish-English-French-
American (aka Caucasian) woman...hopefully this helps :)

Aussie Girl:

Move on, you are young and really havent experienced anything in life yet. This is just some school girl crush. They come and they go. You will fall in and out of love a million times before you find your true love. Your still in High School for crying out loud. This is from a wise man. Just enjoy life, meet new friends and look for a new memories.

White Girl:

Do white Woman really think they are trophies? What is dating someone for their whiteness?. Just curious, Im a different type of Asian. Im against things that are mainstream. Im not attracted to White Women So im curious.

To relax:

‘Move on’ – that is great, but I have a problem…you see NOT only is my school filled with Asians…but also my church is an Asian-church (I have attended it for a year now, my Asian scripture teacher invited me and I been there since)…thus what if the next guy is an Asian…I mean can you truly blame me if it was considering my circumstance?? And about this being some ‘school-girl crush’ I am not that young (I will be an adult next year – oh, here in Australia to be 18 entitles you to have the same responsibilities and privileges as adults) AND this attraction to him has stretched over a year now…doesn’t sound so much like ‘some girl crush’ to me. However, I appreciate the time you have allocated to respond to my desperate blog, I hope I am not intruding – after all I am not American, I am not an Asian and I am not a man.

Aussie Girl:

I work in the travel buisness. Ive been to Sydney on numerous occasions and due to go there soon. The point im making is it doesnt matter if you are Aussie, American, Asian, or man. To me Australians were just funny speaking Americans that play a dumb sport called Rugby. You sound like my 17 year old niece. You have a School Girl crush on someone that obviously dont feel the same about you. You can either move on, or be second best. Why do women love to have things they cannot have?

To Anonymous –

‘Australians were just funny speaking Americans that play a dumb sport called Rugby’ – to make such a poor generalized comment about Australians makes me strongly doubt what u have to say (sorry if I sound very judgmental) – however your response to ‘Why do women love to have things they cannot have’ well it is simply because it is exciting, it gives us something to dress up for, something to dream about – thus it add sparks to our lives; we now have a mission: to get what we want. Oh what, something just click – perhaps I am really attracted to the Asian (I should use a different name…) because he seems not to show an attraction in return (NB I would not have a crush on him if I did not think I had a chance – I can tell there is something from last year’s moment that is still there) – thus I find him exciting – could that be it? Oh and another thing, when u wrote that ‘you sound like my 17 year old niece’ that hurt – it makes me sound inferior, somewhat child-like – you broadcast this comparison in a negative light.

Whoops – I am not really contributing to this discussion – I promise I will try in the future

Aussie Girl:

Im just going to be blunt. Its appears to be over. He has moved on and so should you. You cant force someone to be with you. You are young. You will meet other interesting men in the future. Give it a chance, in time all your wounds will heal, trust me. Enjoy your life why you can. I wish I was 18 years old. The worse thing you can do to a man is stroke his eggo, Dont do that. Why make someone feel more important than what they are. Also, its time to play games, when men know a woman is love sick over him. We like to play games with their hearts, well because what ever we do we know the woman will justify her luv by excusing stupidy. Which is what you are doing. Well you are headed for a wreck. This is just one of those lessons that you will learn. We do not have the answers for you, time does. By the way, is his girlfriend cute? The one he dumped you for?

To Han:

No. White women in general do not think of themselves as "trophies". I think you misunderstood my comments. I do, however, believe most of us recognize that a white standard of beauty IS what mainstream culture has perpetuated & that we, as white women, benefit from this to to some degree (unfair as it may be). As stated previously, I do not want to be equated with the 'gold standard' in dating based solely on my whiteness (see previous entries by other folks)-- this is what I'm referring to by someone 'dating me for my whiteness'. Hope this clarifies matters...

Aussie girl:

I said he might brag to his friends,
because deep down in every Asian
guy, and every man or woman,
is the need to proprogate his genetic
line or feed the ego. Anyone who tells
you differently is 1 of 3 things:

1)an overidealized virgin
2)a liar
3)so enlightened we should worship him

Now from your own comments, you
say he enjoys the attention. Every
guy enjoys attention from women.
It gives them a sense of power and
confidence. Why else do men flirt
with women they are not attracted,
and vice versa.

A boy of his 'excellence' probably has
nothing to gain except more ego from
your attention. it becomes a source
of pride, especially if he is as
perfect as you make him sound. And
pride does not exist in vacuum. it is
constantly fed by other people and in
comparison to other people.

SO i say that he brags to his friends,
perhaps not in an explicit sense -
"i banged that chick", but as a woman,
are giving him attention and that
gives him status over his buddies.
A small ego-boost, self-bragging,
self-assurance -- sort of
narcissism. Being a differnet
race is just icing
on the cake. It'd be the same
if you were black, mexican, indian,
etc. Although White being the more
desired or GOld standard, it's like
getting headhunted by Google or Microsoft as opposed to some
no name brand.

I honestly believe you should
just ask this guy out and see what he
does. Fate favors the bold. A man
who won't date outside his race,
is unlikely to take the first step.
If you really like this guy, you need
to take control.

It's a huge ego risk, but honestly,
it saves you time and the pain
you feel now will be better than
the unresolved obsession afterward.

Anyway.. who knows if I'm right,
you'll never know til you ask the
guy out and see what's he all about.

Friendship is always a better
alternative and a more accessible step,
to starting a relationship.
But that's just my own philisophy,
and a whole new debate on its own.

To Relax:
Thanks for being blunt, I am blunt myself (although I sometimes try so hard not to reveal it) plus I value your honesty…however the thing is, he has NOT moved on, he has NO girlfriend. Thus your words: “By the way, is his girlfriend cute? The one he dumped you for?” makes NO SENSE – perhaps you have misread my previous blogs (which is understandable – I don’t think I express myself as clearly as the others). He showed a genuine interest in me, going so far as to half-asking me out – yet I rejected him on the basis that I did not know him that well, now that I do, I strongly regret my decision. Thus when you wrote: “Its appears to be over. He has moved on and so should you” is contradictory – I honestly do not believe he has (I am not desperate – just yesterday some moronic Aussie loser asked me out) – this has been concluded due to small things, whether it was a quick look, a blush, a smile…there is something there. Yet, I strongly believe he is too influenced by his parents to act out again (perhaps he knows this time I will say yes). Plus I do not “stroke his ego” – he has an idea that I am attracted to him, yet I does not know the extent of it. He has no idea how I truly feel for him.

To jimshi:
Again I am truly impressed by your words. However, I think everyone has misunderstood me. When I first met him, I called him by his wrong name, I considered him to be slightly unfit and unattractive – the only thing that stood out about him was the school that he had attended. Thus as a result, I don’t believe that he get much attention from the opposite sex, regardless of their nationality. However I now see him in a different light – and kick myself for not grabbing the opportunity first time round. About asking him out, while he is know in year twelve, HSC year – there is no time for things like that. Plus, he wants to become a doctor, thus the chance of him boarding elsewhere for the next six to seven years is high…but my question is now, what if the next guy is Asian? (this is a rhetorical question)
I must apologize to all out there – especially to you jimshi – I sound arrogant and childish and I am not contributing anything worthwhile – I don’t understand why you Americans bother with me, but don’t get me wrong, I am grateful. It feels good to share the burden with others – especially when those others are intelligent and realistic.

RELAX- Wow. Way to be stereotypical, arrogant, and superficial all at the same time. That takes a lot!

To say that all Australians are "just funny speaking Americans that play a dumb sport called Rugby" and that she is "like [your] 17 year old niece" is just plain rude and ignorant. Not to mention you are stereotyping all men as guys who go around "play[ing] games with [girl's] hearts". Maybe you are a jerk like that, but I know most men (men being the operative word) are like that. You are obviously immature, no matter how old you might be, because mature, adult men don't go around insulting younger women and calling them a "school girl". If anyone sounds like a high school student, in my opinion, it would be you.

As for what White Girl was talking about..

I'd never personally felt like a "gold-standard" until I traveled outside to Mexico. Even when I'd been to European countries like Italy, Germany, and others, I never really felt like people thought I was better than everyone else. I got some stares, but nothing too out of the ordinary. When I went to Mexico on the otherhand, I was called "pretty lady" and "nice girl" and those sorts of things from vendors and people in general. It was really uncomfortable, because I was constantly offered favors and lower prices and I felt really awful about it. I've yet to be to an Asian country (but I'm going to Japan this summer!) and I know that I will stand out, but I'm hoping it won't be like that. I suppose that white women really are the "gold-standard" to some people, but I'd rather be viewed as just a person, not necessarily by race, you know? In America, I don't really see many people who belong to minority races dating white women only because they are white, but I'm sure it's happening out there a lot more than I realize. But I completely agree that I personally don't want to be seen as some kind of "trophy".

Aussie Girl, keiriruisu: I was also the anonymous person. Dont take the Rugby joke so seriously. When I visited Australia on a buisness trip they made fun of my accent and American Football for days. I really never heard the end of it. As you Aussies say,"No Worries Mate" it was all in good fun. Also, im not going to try to understand this realationship you are going through, so ill just say this. If its meant to be then it will happen, if not then it will fail. You two will either hit, or miss, good luck. keiriruisu, I left Japan about a month ago, My best friend and Co-Worker is Japanese. I had a great time. I luv Japan, I want to move there. Try to decipher this. ANATA WA ITSU NIHON NI KIMASUKA. What month? A little Japanese before you go.One of my CO-Worker is a Peruvian female. She is probably the most beautiful woman ive ever seen. When we were in Japan recently many rich Japanese buisness men adored her, bought all our drinks because they wanted to get close to her. So to Han And White Girl, beauty is just beauty. If my Co-Worker is going to get me free drinks then she is more than welcommed to come with me on every outting.

Aussie Girl, keiriruisu: I was also the anonymous person. Dont take the Rugby joke so seriously. When I visited Australia on a buisness trip they made fun of my accent and American Football for days. I really never heard the end of it. As you Aussies say,"No Worries Mate" it was all in good fun. Also, im not going to try to understand this realationship you are going through, so ill just say this. If its meant to be then it will happen, if not then it will fail. You two will either hit, or miss, good luck. keiriruisu, I left Japan about a month ago, My best friend and Co-Worker is Japanese. I had a great time. I luv Japan, I want to move there. Try to decipher this. ANATA WA ITSU NIHON NI KIMASUKA. What month? A little Japanese before you go.One of my CO-Worker is a Peruvian female. She is probably the most beautiful woman ive ever seen. When we were in Japan recently many rich Japanese buisness men adored her, bought all our drinks because they wanted to get close to her. So to Han And White Girl, beauty is just beauty. If my Co-Worker is going to get me free drinks then she is more than welcommed to come with me on every outting.

To Anonymous/Relax:
I am over the rugby joke (I guess it hit close to home because I play at state level) – Aussies love impersonating and teasing the American accent – to us, it is hilarious, we found Americans entertaining and absolutely adore their accents – here in Australia WE LOVE OUR FOOTBALL – we love wearing our footy colours as we parade the streets and cheer for our teams…so be careful what you say. As for ‘no worries mate’ – I could not have summed it up better myself! I am not asking you to understand my relationship (if that is the right word) I am merely interested in the reasons why Asian men are reluctant to accept white women. I agree with your advice, if it is meant to be it will happen (I keep you posted if I ever have enough courage to ask him out).
Cheers.

I guess you will have to ask those Asian Men that date White Women? Me and my friends prefer our Asian Women. Im Half Asian, but I prefer Asian Women. So I cant help you there. Americans Love football,I personally prefer Basball and Basketball, So imagining me bitting my tongue the whole time I was there. Well ofciurse, all english speaking countries adore us, Americans are cool. I guess if you want to find out ask him, get on with it. All he can say is either "no", or "yes". If its yes great, "no" then move on. Good Luck, or Cheers.

To RELAX:

Out of curiousity...what is your other half?
Does that mean you will never consider a white women??
PS I am sending this at tenish at night - thus it is NOT early in the morning as it may seem to you Americans

Aussie Girl;

nihon jin desuka, My other half is not Caucasion if thats what you want to know. White Girls are OK, I guess. Im not necessarily looking at the color of ones race. If its beauty I think Asian women are the best,Along with Hispanic Women. Trying to date a White girl is not high on my list. Ill consider dating anyone if they are right for me.

To RELAX:

Do u ever sleep! I mean you call urself 'RELAX" perhaps u should take ur own advice.

Sorry - I have been deprieved of my sleep - the above message was from me...it looks as though u are telling urself to relax hehehe

Aussie girl:

nihon jin desuka means i'm japanese. haha even tho you prob already figured it out. this comment may sound outdated but i just wanted to say : "relax" obviously has forgotten how it is to have a crush...sure you could get over it but it's not going to happen like *that*.

wait..if there's a ka then is this person questioning whether he's japanese?

SI.c

Good Observation, typo. wrote to fast. Still learning Japanese. That is a kindergarten typo.

Relax- 6? ? ?? ? ????. ??? ? ????. ???, ? ? ?????. ??, ????? ??????. ^^ I don't know all that much, but I think I'll manage. I'm going with a bunch of fluent people as well, so it wont be too bad.

Anyway.. maybe we should get back to the real subject of why white women for the most part don't seem to like asian men and the like. We've sort of gotten off of the subject.

To Aussie girl, if you want advice from younger Aussies instead of these silly yanks- I mean Americans :P- give this forum a go.
http://community.boredofstudies.org/
Its for Australian (but mainly NSW) high school/uni students.

i apologise for intruding upon this forum and causing some distraction!
i am very interested by the opinions proposed here - i think that the fact "white women for the most part don't seem to like asian men" may stem from personal experiences, or the experiences of poeple they know. many relationships in which there is a mix of cultures, namely western/eastern, do not eventuate in a happily ever after ending (i know this is a very generalised comment). i have friends who are half asian half western, and whose parents are divorced. this may impact on people's views on relationships with someone of another culure.
i think it has been previously mentioned th